DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

topic posted Mon, October 8, 2007 - 8:14 PM by  kattl
hello sweet family,

now,
i finally have a forum in which i care to share these ideas.
more than ideas. i have videos, and prototypes...

we can power our gasoline powered (items) with hydrogen,
which creates zero polution.
and,
we can gather this hydrogen out of the electrolysis of water,
which we can create on board, or at home,
using renewable energy sources like solar, wind, and hydro.
NOT FROM NATURAL GAS OR COAL!!!!!!
no grid, money, comcast, or shiny black shoes required!
and,
we can gather solar energy using technologies and systems that we can make and maintain, not photovoltaics.
not to dis them; pvs are great, it's just that we can't make them in the woods, and the shiny black shoes got them monopolized.
and, we could power stuff at home with it too.
any engineers, mechanics, ganjaprenuers, or goddeses in the bay area or norcal want to help?
let's get a fleet of vehicles running on solar generated hydrogen for bm next year, and start taking over the cali roadways.
put that in your exhaust pipe and suck on it, for some distilled water.
peace and LOVE to YOU.

in the name of om,

kattl
posted by:
kattl
SF Bay Area
  • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

    Tue, November 13, 2007 - 2:40 PM
    'we can power our gasoline powered (items) with hydrogen,
    which creates zero polution. '

    Wrong.
    Combustion engines require a supply of outside air.
    Air includes 70% Nitrogen.
    Heating nitrogen in a combustion environment creates oxides of nitrogen, the primary ingredient of photochemical smog.
    There is no way around this, try again.
    • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

      Tue, November 13, 2007 - 3:05 PM
      not to mention all the pollution created making your hydrogen and hydrogen generating devices.

      As much as I'd love to see hydrogen in use there are some technical obsticles we still need to overcome
      • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

        Tue, November 13, 2007 - 11:01 PM
        you guys have been fed a lot.

        this is a transitional solution, allowing us to use our existing vehicles as electric cars.
        (there are many, and growing, ways of gathering energy, stored as electricity.)

        1) electrolyze the water at the point of use in the car, of course not with coal or natural gas.
        (and we will need to use electricity.)

        2) feed the oxygen and hydrogen into the motor.
        you think it's not less polluting than dumping 58000 gallons of bunker fuel into the bay i live on?

        there are technical obstacles. what are you waiting for?

        check out waterpoweredcar.com/herman (see the hermansinsight mirror), my beloved late great mentor.
        he personally told me: "nothing is impossible."
        please read the last sentence on that web page.

        with love, my brothers.

        got a better way? cold fusion? zero point energy? homoppolar generators?
        by all means available, please let us all know.
        we need to get out from under this.
        seriously.
        • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

          Tue, November 13, 2007 - 11:16 PM
          I am not saying I have a better way, only giving you a hard time for starting this thread with a blatantly false statement.
          .
          • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

            Fri, January 4, 2008 - 7:44 PM
            It looks easy and I'm considering trying to install this in my engine. Has anyone any views on the tech?

            watercargift.com/water4gas/2books.htm
            • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

              Fri, January 4, 2008 - 8:59 PM
              The selling of information is not illegal no matter how false it may be.
              basic physics says 'free energy from your car' is not possible.
              Modifications to the MAP sensor circuit are illegal.

              As a mechanic, I will say that competently installing their kit is unlikely to do any permanent damage to anything but your wallet.
              If the HHO device draws more than 15 Amps or so, it should probably be operated by a relay rather than through your ignition switch.
            • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

              Fri, January 4, 2008 - 11:30 PM
              My view on the tech is that it is very low tech. The picture shows a mason jar as the "hydrogen generator" and the "map sensor enhancer" consists of two potentiometers. Oh, and you get some hoses and a plastic picnic spoon to carefully add the baking soda to catalyze the reaction. I learned how to build one of these in high school chemistry class, except we got to use platinum for the electrodes instead of cheap tin plated ones (which will corrode very quickly, by the way).

              As for it's viability... the amount of hydrogen produced from a 16 ounce mason jar would be minuscule compared to the amount needed to run a car. On top of that, the energy required to perform the electrolysis is more than you'd get out of the resultant hydrogen gas. In other words, this will device will suck more energy out of your car than it gives back.

              Sham.
              • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

                Sat, January 5, 2008 - 12:47 AM
                Well, has anyone tried the tech?
                Either this system or the more refined system designed by Stan Meyers. Who actually had sold his tech to the military and they are running Hummers on water?
                My hit is to try it, since the approved Bush alternatives are all aimed at leaving the gate keepers in charge of fueling vehicles. ie. bio-diesel and compressed hydrogen. After all, it's pretty obvious that petro is a very inefficient fuel source. I just have this feeling inside that the true gifts come in very humble wrappings.
                I have actually found 3 people in town who will share the $99 for the plans and the seller is working on the 'pay it forward' philosophy. Looks like I may loose the price of three tanks of gasoline, or... gain a permanent reduction in fuel costs of my '88 Plymouth Reliant .
                The plans do tell of a way to gang multi-jars together to produce more brown gas. Also the plans are distributed as open source information and all of the parts are only suggestions, every component has to be bought locally and can be replaced by more efficient ones. For instance, the plastic spoon can be replaced by a silver spoon. The Mason jar can be replaced by a stainless steel cylinder .

                I will look into the battery drain. Also, I too, are concerned about the needed electricity to create the brown gas but all I've read about Stan's device seem to imply a surprisingly large amount of gas out of very little electrical input. I also seem to remember that he used something other than baking soda to add to the water.

                Thanks for your first impressions and I would love to hear more input and comments.
                • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

                  Thu, June 12, 2008 - 12:08 PM
                  > they are running Hummers on water?

                  Absolutely not. Hummers use the AM General supplied Chevy 6.5 DIESEL engine, and are fed a strict diet of petrodiesel. Water and diesel do not mix, period. If you're talking about running a diesel on the H2 produced from electrolysis, just stop and think for a moment about what would happen to a 20:1 compression ratio motor fed hydrogen along with oxygen and diesel. Can anyone say "cutting torch"? Or... BOOM?

                  Have you personally seen an example of a vehicle actually running on this conversion?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

                    Thu, June 12, 2008 - 4:35 PM
                    Sorry, I must have believed a bad rumour about the Hummers.
                    I never did get my car modified for Hydro-assist as it fell apart and I had it scrapped. Since I have had no car for a few month's now, I must say that I am very happy and it could not have been a better time to go cold turkey on Petroleum usage. I may get back in the driving game once a non-petrol carriage comes my way.

                    Anyway, Hummers are for chickens that want to drive over snails. :)
                    Bicycles are for real humans.
                    • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

                      Fri, June 13, 2008 - 9:25 PM
                      > Since I have had no car for a few month's now, I must say that I am very happy and it
                      > could not have been a better time to go cold turkey on Petroleum usage.

                      Now that's the best alternative fuel of all ! :)
            • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

              Sat, January 5, 2008 - 12:41 AM
              junk. go to the bottom of the web site and read how much money you can make selling this bull shit system. %1000 profit!
              watercargift.com/water4gas/2books.htm
              • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

                Sat, January 5, 2008 - 12:53 AM
                Yes, but check out this page:
                watercargift.com/water4gas...-books.htm

                and scroll down to the video where it says...

                Why do it?

                Some people do it for the money... Some people "pay it forward"... You choose:
                • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

                  Sat, January 5, 2008 - 1:07 AM
                  Hey! A new surprise!
                  While posting the last reply I noticed a google add on the page that led me to this site. It's got a great video too.
                  www.savefuel.ca/hydrogen/
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

                    Sat, January 5, 2008 - 1:58 PM
                    i'm with you xaliman.
                    the low tech solution is intentional
                    (also, btw, TRANSITIONAL!)
                    herman anderson made his old ford sedan run on water in tennessee in the 70's,
                    partly out of pvc sink drain parts. i got under the hood of it alone, myself, got vids, took notes...
                    this is not free energy. he used another external car battery.
                    oh yeah, he also worked on the stealth, and mars rovers for the dod.
                    before they put him out to pasture as a crazy old man, like they did with tesla, diesel, and the rest...
                    don't listen to me, google him.
                    why do YOU think we can only see low tech vids about this?!?
                    what's interesting to me is how many naysayers we have,
                    in our own alt energy tribes,
                    and how loud they are about us not even experimenting for ourselves,
                    with technology older than the crappy combustion engine...
                    hmmmm, why don't they want us to try it?
                    i don't care what they try, in fact what are they trying, anyway? anything?
                    the renewable energy and solar power tribe seems to be of a more collaborative mindset...
                    • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

                      Sat, January 5, 2008 - 6:12 PM
                      Tell you what.

                      Install one of these in your car and do some rigorous mileage tests.

                      Report back.
                      • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

                        Sat, January 5, 2008 - 7:32 PM
                        Geo ... That's the plan. I would love to report a gasoline savings of 10 to 30%
                        I also will report a failure.
                        I wish I could afford to go out and purchase a pre-built unit but average $1000 is more than what my car is worth.

                        Does anyone else explore the numerous Google adds that find their way to surround our topic, here on Tribe? There are now at least 5 systems being sold by manufacturers. I realize that the $97 books that explain building your own, is the budget way to go. However, some of the manufacturers are building some nice looking units that are pretty easy to install.
                        I assume that for people to get enthused enough to start manufacturing units for sale, they actually do something useful to reduce gasoline usage.

                        I'm still shopping, but, this Canadian built unit is my favourite right now....
                        www.savefuel.ca/hydrogen/s...roducts.php

                        I'm not trying to sell anyone products... just trying to bring my oil dependency to an end.
                        • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

                          Sat, January 5, 2008 - 10:49 PM
                          amen brotha!
                          this is no ultimate solution, but we gotta start somewhere,
                          and there is here. i built an electrolyzer that looks just like those 4"abs ones on the website.
                          i verified that it does kick out some hydrogen and oxygen, just like the 5th grade science exp.
                          guess i need to get up the balls and take the time to throw it under the hood...
  • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

    Mon, January 7, 2008 - 9:41 PM
    we can gather solar energy using technologies and systems that we can make and maintain, not photovoltaics.
    not to dis them; pvs are great, it's just that we can't make them in the woods, and the shiny black shoes got them monopolized.
    and, we could power stuff at home with it too.
    any engineers, mechanics, ganjaprenuers, or goddeses in the bay area or norcal want to help?
    let's get a fleet of vehicles running on solar generated hydrogen for bm next year, and start taking over the cali roadways.
    put that in your exhaust pipe and suck on it, for some distilled water.
    peace and LOVE to YOU.


    What the Hell? Look, Norway has a system of making hydrogen form Water. This is not a problem. You can not put hydrogen in a gas engine. That won't work.
    Over all, I see your heart is in the right place, that is what really counts.
    • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

      Mon, January 7, 2008 - 11:04 PM
      wwhhhat!?!?

      yes, it does too.
      google bmw's gasoline/hydrogen hybrids.
      • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

        Mon, January 7, 2008 - 11:09 PM
        just for starters, so we're all on the same page:

        www.hybrid-vehicles.net/bmw-hy...ars.htm
        • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

          Mon, January 7, 2008 - 11:43 PM
          Achbar... you say:
          "You can not put hydrogen in a gas engine. That won't work. "

          You are partially right. You can't use a regular car engine totally on hydrogen because many of the parts will rust because of the residual water that is the bi-product. However, as you have seen with the BMW, it is possible to build a petrol based engine with specialized rust proof parts that will work with either petrol or hydrogen. It's the same mechanism and wheels on the pavement.
          The temporary, inexpensive workaround is to add the hydrogen as a petrol supplement. This optimizes the combustion and eliminates much of the carbon pollution that is the norm. Burning the two gasses together doesn't produce enough water bi-product to cause the parts to rust. In fact, it actually cleans the build up of oil grunge that causes the engine to get clogged and wear out.
  • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

    Sun, May 18, 2008 - 3:11 PM
    Alright People, what is the word on these. Anyone here installed on of these yet. I just heard about this via coast to coast am and I have to say that while at first I was skeptical about it. Actually I straight up thought it was a friggin` scam. But after listening to a couple of the people involved with these sites goemt.net and water4gas.com I think that it may work enough to have bought the e-book. It is amazing how many haters would rather spend their days grabbing their ankles and talking trash about something they apparently have not read about. After all no one is running their cars off pure hydrogen with these, it is supplemental only and just helps the engine to get a more complete burn of the fuel from my understanding at least. Down here in Los Angeles people meet at woodley park every Saturday showing off what they have done and discussing their home built systems. I did not make it yesterday but am gonna try to get over there next saturday. Well I would love to hear from someone on hear that had the wavos to just do it.....
    • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

      Sun, May 18, 2008 - 8:51 PM
      lets see some dyno tests!
      • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

        Thu, May 22, 2008 - 12:23 PM
        I've been prowling the net for DIY hydroxy boost info a lot the past few days. I think I'm going to try it out, just not sure I can make the time and energy happen. There are two main things going out there. One is Hydroxy assist which means you take some (most?) of the energy produced by your alternator and use it to break water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen by electorlysis. This HHO gas is then fed into your air intake or similar and is alleged to basically combust the fuel you are already using much more efficiently. % claims for MPG increases are all over the place. It seems like it must work from what I've seen out there. You can make these devices yourself, though there are a lot more people selling plans than giving them away.

        The other thing going is the people claiming over unity by making and burning hydroxy. Mainly they are claiming that a dead guy named Stan Meyers was able to produce HHO by a method with resulted in a net increase in energy, meaning that if burned the gas gave off more energy than was consumed by the device used to make it. Therefore it could theoretically run indefinitely. The videos of Stan Meyer available on Youtube are thoroughly unconvincing. There are message boards and groups of people working on replicating this effect which it is claimed is not regular hydrolysis. Two people Ravi and Lawton are said to have replicated the effect and achieved much more energy produced than input. Ravi has videos of his replication at work and has posted plans for others to replicate. However, his video shows the ammeter clamped to the dc output of his power supply. As far as I know, clamp on ammeters are not accurate on DC. The only lawton videos show an ammeter, but you can't read it because the video is too blurry and you can't see what wires are going where. In other words, there is just no plausible proof that this stuff works. Maybe the other people working on it know something I don't, but as far as I can tell there is not much to go on besides good faith. Far be it from me to say that it is impossible or will never work. I'm genuinely interested, but extremely skeptical. No reason I shouldn't be and every reason that I should. If nothing else, maybe they are onto a more efficient way to produce HHO with pulsing DC. There certainly seems to be a lot of genuine enthusiasm. All I really see so far is a lot of rumors and the usual "we're very close" or "so and so has already done this for years" yet not even half-assed attempts at any real proof. Not enough for me to jump in the waters.

        If I can get to the hydroxy boost experiment I'll certainly post back the results. Keep an open mind, but put a fine filter on the opening!
        • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

          Sun, May 25, 2008 - 2:53 PM
          I did some research on clamp meters and I was wrong in my previous post, there are clamp meters that measure DC. The one I have doesn't.

          I've decided to build the Smack Hydroxy Booster. There is a link to the directions on this page www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/ It looks straightforward and cheap. I don't like that you have to use lye as the electrolyte, nor that it over heats and has to have a weaker electrolyte solution if you drive on a long trip to prevent it's overheating. But, all in all it looks like it might be the most accessible solution; the directions are good and the guy has his act together. His youtube vids are pretty clear and informative too, unlike most of them.

          www.youtube.com/watch

          They claim around 20 mpg average gain. If I gained 20 mpg and got my mileage up to 27.6 from 23 mpg that would save 72 gallons of gas over 10,000 miles and $288.00 @ $4.00 gallon. hydroxy supplementation is also widely claimed to decrease emissions by combusting more of the fuel. I will post results and info if and when I get to the project.
          • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

            Wed, June 4, 2008 - 12:02 AM
            Check out www.PoweredWithWater.com - they have posted results from several test vehicles.
            • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

              Thu, June 5, 2008 - 8:23 AM
              Possibly interesting, but they are trying to sell something after all. I think the best indicator to look at is liters per minute of gas production at a given current. I would find that out about any unit I was going to purchase and compare to others. Smack claims 1.7 lpm @ I think 20 amps. With as cheap and easy as it seems to be to build, a unit selling for 359.00 in kit form would have to quite a bit better. Smack sells his kits and completed units, but gives clear easy instructions for building them for free too.
              • The end of DIY hydrogen assist

                Sat, June 7, 2008 - 8:49 AM
                This company believes in the tech and they are selling a special vehicle to optimize the concept. So for those that won't do it on the cheap. Save up your $150k and pour in the water. Unfortunately you won't save any money because even though it burns half as much gasoline, the price of gasoline has doubled....
                ...at least the water is free!

                news.cnet.com/8301-11128_...0833-54.html
              • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

                Sat, June 7, 2008 - 11:15 AM
                I looked up this tribe in the hopes of getting some answers on if this type of thing actually works. Your posts have led me to some very helpful links. I have been researching doing this to my truck for a couple of days, and the few coworkers I've shared the idea with have laughed at me. While I'm still approaching this with a little doubt in my mind, I feel a little better about it after reading your posts. I was previously going to use the mason jar technique, as seen on this site mylamadson.com/hybrid, and was about to go shopping for parts. Now I think I'll try the smack booster plans since they look a little more solid. Either way, I WILL try one of the two. It's either that, sell my truck, or convert it to some other alternative fuel. I also really like the irony of possibly having a '73 Ford Ranchero that pollutes less and gets better mileage than a new small pickup.
                • Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

                  Sat, June 7, 2008 - 2:43 PM
                  I don't know if it's the same, but I saw some bad reviews of the water4gas mason jar plans. They seem to be the most common DIY version out there. You usually have to buy the plans too. I think I'm going to do the smack booster but cut my own plates from some scrap stainless I have lying around. He says that if you space the plates a little closer you can get slightly better performance out of it, but that you can't space the wall plates too close because of their odd shape or something. It'll be cheaper if I make them too. Please do let us know how it goes. I'm not sure I'll be able to build mine anytime too soon unfortunately. Another thing I've been thinking is that maybe it would be better to try to find a stainless container so that it could take more heat. Apparently heat is an issue requiring that you use a different electrolyte strength for short v.s. long driving if you want optimal results. The issue of shrapnel in case of an explosion comes up, but I think PVC might actually be more likely to shrapnel and wouldn't probably do much less damage than metal anyway. Besides, a loose rubber plug in the top should give an easy blow out. It doesn't seem like too big an issue anyway with a bubbler, but it's probably prudent to give it some consideration.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: DIY hydrogen power YOUR gas guzzler

                    Mon, June 9, 2008 - 8:54 PM
                    I usually don't join a post, but just thought I would drop a few kernels of info I have. I will be talking to a fellow I know whom has gotten results of about 8 mpg on his pickup, small ford. This got me started again with this idea and I will be building the smack in the next few weeks.
                    Now to an idea and I really don't mind anyone cutting hell out of it. I keep hearing the statement of using energy to produce hydrogen which is true, even though our alternators should be ok to be used and hydrogen works perhaps as a catalyst rather that raw usage? I recently converted a bike to electricity and it comes out to over 800 miles per gallon by just charging up the batteries. Take this idea, put a couple extra batteries in your car and produce some extra hydrogen and call it a hybrid and charge up each night. Using the grid to augment your travels is more efficient than running the gas guzzler. Hmmmm.